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Starts in Great Britain, Stops All Over The World
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Before EBC had their global online catalogues, this is how automotive and Motorcycle parts could be found in 1997!

What do you miss (or miss doing) that technology has replaced, if anything?
1901
 

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One thing I miss is that you used to be able to rebuild just about anything, water pump repair kits, windscreen wiper motors, dynamos, alternators, starter motors – armatures, brushes, bushes, pinions, bearings and insulator posts. Brake callipers, slave cylinders and servos, you could get all the bits you needed. You could even buy brake linings and rivets separately and fit them yourself – if you had the skills. You had to watch Girling and Lockheed systems and never, ever mix the two fluids. Nowadays it’s all exchange units, labour costs are too high.
 

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Starts in Great Britain, Stops All Over The World
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
One thing I miss is that you used to be able to rebuild just about anything, water pump repair kits, windscreen wiper motors, dynamos, alternators, starter motors – armatures, brushes, bushes, pinions, bearings and insulator posts. Brake callipers, slave cylinders and servos, you could get all the bits you needed. You could even buy brake linings and rivets separately and fit them yourself – if you had the skills. You had to watch Girling and Lockheed systems and never, ever mix the two fluids. Nowadays it’s all exchange units, labour costs are too high.
Too right. We do now live in a 'throw away society' and nobody seems to repair anything, a lot of people enjoyed the satisfaction of repairing something back to it's former glory.
 

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Had a look at that site Metro, quite enjoyed it. Watched the video of them repairing a truck rear axle that had the hub mounting part snapped off. Rotating the axle casing in an old manually controlled horizontal lathe a bit lopsided – if he’d gone above 50 RPM the thing would have taken off. The safety aspect is non-existent, don’t think I’d fancy working in a goonie and flip-flops. When they were electric welding it I was reminded of a man-with-a-van who had an old Bedford van that needed doors and other bits welded so be bought an electric welder and decided to do it himself. Unfortunately he never got a mask or even goggles with it but spent a couple of hours welding away with no protection. He was a big 18 stone man but he was up that night crying like a baby with welders flash, said it felt like someone had thrown hot sand in his eyes.
 

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Lacetti 1.6 2008
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Besides... the parts are designed to fail after a certain period or cycles just to keep you spending money. The products nowadays are Trojan Horses.
Another thing is that skilled mechanics that care about reliability are gone. All they want is money. This is valid in almost all fields of work, from IT to autoservices. The japanese saying "If you do something, do it as best as you can" is gone even in japanesse car industry.
 

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We've all had bad parts at one time or another. Buying from the garages you used to be OK to get the right parts FoMoCo, Delphi, BL, Quinton Hazell, Ferodo, Bosch etc but it was the most expensive way. Most of the stores personnel in the main dealers were long term (even the odd woman) who knew their stuff but the little parts shops, that could be different, there was some iffy stuff floating around. Bought a set of rear brake shoes once for a Cortina I was getting ready for an MOT, fitted them then took it for a run applying the brake gently a few times then finally yanked it on hard whereon there was a bang from the rear and the handbrake lever went vertical. They were bonded linings and the bonding just gave way on a couple of the shoes. Thing is, when I took them back they gave me the third degree as if it was my fault it had happened.
 

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Marius, I don't quite follow that chart of yiours. Care to explain it a bit more?
 

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Lacetti 1.6 2008
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Victor, the reliability of the products increases but also their cost of manufacture. If the client awareness is high, only these products will sell. But this means small profit.
 

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My 2016 Peugeot 508 recently let me down on the way to do courier work, the Aveo I normally use was in pieces having it's new valve work, so the 508 was substituted. All the warning lights came on, and it announced that the charging circuits were not working. Left it running, looked under bonnet, alternator drive belt was in tatters, so went home without stopping it as I didn't want it to refuse to restart. Ordered a new belt, and noticed that the manufacturer (Gates) now only offer an "uprated" version. Belt duly arrives, and I fit it, run the engine but it is clearly not right, and the front tensioner (there are 2) is out of line. So end up fitting a new one. £8 belt, £40 tensioner, couple of hours of work.
Turns out that the stop/start system puts excessive strain on both the belt and the tensioner causing premature failure, hence the "up-rating".
Car has 39k on the clock, the 407, nearly 3 times the age and mileage with a similar setup is still fine and on original belts. The worst thing is that before I (semi) retired in 2018, the 508 was my business car, long distances and very little use of the stop-start system, had it been a town use car I doubt it would have lasted 20k.
I doubt anyone set out to make the parts crap, just unintended consequences.
 
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Lacetti 1.6 2008
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The start stop is intended. In theory the starter is stronger than one from a start-stop-less car, but I doubt it.
The generator double mass pulley is the same story as the double mass flywheel.
 

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The point which Marius is making is that if a product is produced with a 12 month warranty against failure then the quality of the materials (and possibly workmanship) used will be only those capable of meeting that period. If on the other hand the product has a 5 year warranty then higher quality raw materials are used so as to meet the longer warranty.
Higher quality materials are more expensive (but not 5 x times the cost) but fewer customers purchase the more expensive item therefore the profitability on inferior products purchased more often is greater because of the higher failure rate v's cost of raw materials. I understood the graph.
 
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"if a product is produced with a 12 month warranty against failure then the quality of the materials (and possibly workmanship) used will be only those capable of meeting that period"

Light bulbs are perhaps the finest example of this loose principle. Designed to just last long enough to not be returned as faulty, but just long enough not to deter purchase of the same brand. Biggest scam ever.
 

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Lacetti 1.6 2008
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"if a product is produced with a 12 month warranty against failure then the quality of the materials (and possibly workmanship) used will be only those capable of meeting that period"

Light bulbs are perhaps the finest example of this loose principle. Designed to just last long enough to not be returned as faulty, but just long enough not to deter purchase of the same brand. Biggest scam ever.
Yes, the first company that made light bulbs went bankrupt and there is still a bulb working still. They made them to good.
 

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My 2016 Peugeot 508 recently let me down on the way to do courier work, the Aveo I normally use was in pieces having it's new valve work, so the 508 was substituted. All the warning lights came on, and it announced that the charging circuits were not working. Left it running, looked under bonnet, alternator drive belt was in tatters, so went home without stopping it as I didn't want it to refuse to restart. Ordered a new belt, and noticed that the manufacturer (Gates) now only offer an "uprated" version. Belt duly arrives, and I fit it, run the engine but it is clearly not right, and the front tensioner (there are 2) is out of line. So end up fitting a new one. £8 belt, £40 tensioner, couple of hours of work.
Turns out that the stop/start system puts excessive strain on both the belt and the tensioner causing premature failure, hence the "up-rating".
Car has 39k on the clock, the 407, nearly 3 times the age and mileage with a similar setup is still fine and on original belts. The worst thing is that before I (semi) retired in 2018, the 508 was my business car, long distances and very little use of the stop-start system, had it been a town use car I doubt it would have lasted 20k.
I doubt anyone set out to make the parts crap, just unintended consequences.
Does your 508 have the PSA Stop/Start system which uses a reversible alternator, not the startert, to restart the engine?
Gates Start/Stop system for PSA Peugeot Citroën
 

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The start stop is intended. In theory the starter is stronger than one from a start-stop-less car, but I doubt it.
The generator double mass pulley is the same story as the double mass flywheel
Never seen an alternator pulley built like a DMF although lots of them are extra wide to accommodate the multi grooves for the flat belts. Sure you're not confusing this with the alternator over-run pulleys?
 

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Lacetti 1.6 2008
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Victor, I meant they are not just a piece of steel that lasts over 400k km. The alternator pulleys are built now with unidirection bearing and springs from what I know.
 

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Does your 508 have the PSA Stop/Start system which uses a reversible alternator, not the startert, to restart the engine?
Gates Start/Stop system for PSA Peugeot Citroën
No, mine is a 2.0 engine, so it has a separate starter motor, although the layout of the pullies and tensioners is just like that picture. When it does the stop/start thing, it is very good and the restart is smooth and instant. However....when I was commuting into Lincoln, not long after I had it, I would do 50 miles with no restarts, then 2 miles with about 15 restarts. Same again on the way home, with a trip up to head office, it was in the order of 40-50 starts a day. Now I know that everybody thinks that that is fine, but to an older person such as me, it just seems wrong, and it seems that while the starter may be fine with it, the rest of the system is not. You can shut it off for a single journey, but even with access to Peugeot Planet/ Diagbox, there seems to be no way of turning it off permanently.
 
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