[turnbulltj]

Good Afternoon, I am a newbie to the forum, as I am to Chevvys too. My wife has just had an Orlando 2.0 Vcdi LT in Silver Auto, nice car very impressed.


However, I am also all too new to problematic diesel particulate filters,or should I say DPF's that you have to intervene with TWICE !! within the first 2500 miles of the cars life. I will explain my experience just to get some feedback as to whether anyone else has had the same.



At 1600 miles the DPF light came on the dashboard. Naturally, I called my local dealer and spoke to the service technician, who although very pleasant, gave me the distinct impression that he was getting totally brassed off with having to repeat himself to numerous customers., about the same issue.



He asked how my wife drove the vehicle, which I explained that it was her car, and as she doesn't work hence only uses it for taking our daughter to school and using it around town, parent visits etc etc, the type of normal activity that you would expect from your missus car. He basically went on to explain that the car isn't designed for this type of use and that I needed, and I quote, to "thrape the arse off it' down the motorway in fourth gear for about 10 miles at 70mph or until the DPF warning light extinguishes.



Apparently the car needs to have a good run over 2000rpm at least every 1-2 weeks to force a regeneration programme within the exhaust system and basically burn off the soot particles collected by the DPF.



I questioned how this is possible in an automatic car that at 70mph is only touching 1700rpm in 6th gear. Hence why he said to use it in manual mode and keep it in fourth or fifth gear.



I was somewhat concerned, because this is not the type of driving style that my wife would ever entertain, so I did it for her and sure enough the light went out and the MPG significantly increased again (Sorry forgot to mention previous that this was also a telltale sign of the filter being blocked)



Everything now seemed fine again, although we were still somewhat bemused that our new car needed this kind of aggressive user intervention. We had previously driven a Peugeot 3008 which for 12000 miles had never shown any signs of DPF issues (and it did have one



Anyway some 900 miles later, yesterday at approx 2500 miles, white smoke started billowing out of the exhaust and the MPG went through the floor. Sure enough another 'Thrape Arse'up the motorway and everything seems fine again.



Has anyone experienced these kind of issues. I am not at all concerned that there is anything wrong with the car as such, as I have since read up and researched DPF's on vehicles and all of the above is quite normal. However it does seem somewhat contrary, that a DPF is placed onto the vehicle to cut down emmisions, but every 1000 miles you have to burn quantites of diesel at break neck speeds to get the darn thing to clean itself.



Any comments, experiences would be greatly appreciated. I feel that this whole issue of DPF is going to become a massive can of worms for the manufacturers and I understand BBC Watchdog are running an article about it on this Thursdays programme.

 

[bopeep]

Hi turnbuillt,I too have the same model in silver and auto, I have now done 9,000 miles, When I first bought it I went from london to north wales as soon as I picked it up then back to London to pick up a caravan and back to the Midlands, from there I drove down to Spain, so it had a good run in. I have since been back to the UK and back home again to Spain. Last trip 18 hours non stop.
since then it just tats about town to the shops and to the hairdressers, with just the odd long trip in the caravan, I have to say I have never had any light came on, My wife will use it tomorrow just to go out for coffee with friends then it will sit for a week when we use our other car because it is easier to park in thesespanish towns.
It is a nice car and I am happy with it and as the miles go on then the more economical it has become. I also have to say as my age is creeping on and what with the spanish roads I do drive a lot slower than I have ever done, but as of yet no lights. Maybe it is the caravan that keeps it in line, because it needs more power just to drive.
Will be interesting to see watchdog, except I will be away in the caravan this thursday.

 

[turnbulltj]

Hi Bopeep, Thanks for taking the time to reply. We too have and enjoy touring caravanning, although I have a big old 4x4 Isuzu that does the lumping, so not going to be subjecting the Chevvy to that.


I would reckon that based on what you have said, up to yet, you have done exactly the kind of driving that the DPF's like.Lengthy, consistent and above 50mph. It's all to do with the exhaust temperatures, and at speed and with time the car can automatically instigate a regeneration cleaningcycle, that basically igintes and burns off the soot particles collected by the DPF and you would be non the wiser.



It's certainly an interesting subject, and I know it is not unique to Chevrolet, but in fact majority of manufacturer marques.Apparently there are 2 types of DPF system. The particular one that PSA group use (Peugeot, Citroen) relies on an additive being automatically added to the diesel fuel (in the parts per million) which binds to the particles of soot, allowing them to be ignited and burnt off at a much lower temperature. Hence why I probably had no issues with the Peugeot 3008 we owned. It would seem that GM (Chevvy and the like,) amongstplenty of others do not use this system, but the conventional other one, which relies on good old right footed grunt and a blast of heat treatment through the system to blow out the cobwebs as it were.



All said and done, though, I am very pleased with the vehicle and am hoping that once the cogs have bed in a bit, the MPG will trickle up too. Currently getting around early to mid 30's, but the car is really doing the absolute urban of urban driving at the moment. Never the best for economy!



Thanks again, hope you enjoy your caravan break (quite envious) and hope this has given you an insight into your new motor, should you ever experience the same symptoms. Enjoy, Hope to speak again, Trevor

 

[Oldroverboy]

Hi to all,My epica, same 2.0 vcdi engine gets a weekly run for my wifes work that is sufficient to burn off the soot, which is collected in a "filter" Anyone who does not do sufficient miles at the right temperatures/revs/ etc on an open road has got the wrong car. I remember some city banker with a jag diesel who commuted between Camden town and the city of london, The dealers will not ask if your usage requires adiesel or not. Given the extra cost of diesel engined cars and the extra hassle, anyone thinking of a new car needs to see if it is actually going to be useful to them.
The problem lies in people and dealers not asking the right questions, however regardless of fuel consumption my next car will be a mid sized petrol engined korean with a 5 or 7 year warranty.... Sounds like a cruze 1.6 to me...unless it is one of the others.

Strongly suggest reading Honest john/ dpf on his website.

 

[dee dee]

Hi all.I also have the Orlando 2Ltr auto diesel and I have had, and it looks like still are having problems with the D.P.F from the very first day. After about 11 miles from picking it up from the dealers the light came on. I went straight back and then after getting the car back the following day the same thing happened. This went on for about a week, they would take it on the motorway and as you say give a good thrashing and then say it was ok. I don't know what they done but the light does not come on any more!!!!! but my fuel consumption is awful. I am getting about 25 m.p.g local. My last car was a Citreon 2ltr diesel but I never had a problem and I was getting mid 30s local driving.
My dealer has said nothing about cleaning the D.P.F in the way you have said, I must be honest, this to me isabsolutelycrazy. If this is what you have to do if you don't use the motorways regular then there must be a major fault with the D.P.F and I shall be making another call to my dealer first thing Monday morning.

Many Thanks to this forum, things like this you would never find out other wise.

dee dee.

 

[dee dee]

Had more problems with the D.P.F. The light came on again so I rang the dealers and all they could say is the usual, " unfortunatelythatis what happens every few hundred miles". So up the motorway againkeeping the revs at about 3000 r.p.m in forth in the autoand this time I travelled 20 miles before the light went outIn doing that I was then only getting 22 m.p.g.. That was a round trip of 40 miles and 2 gallons of deisel lighter in the tank.They say these D.P.Fs are fitted to reduce emissions well it is reducing my wallet in a big way also I was then polluting theatmosphere even more going out for a 40 mile round trip when I had better things to do. This is so bloody annoying.

I have just about had enough of this so again another trip to the dealers to be told the same thing: "UNFORTUNATELYTHAT IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO WITH THE DIESEL PARTICAL FILTER".

A "very" fed up

dee dee.

Edited by: dee dee

 

[IVA-BIGTOOL]

@ Dee Dee &
Turnbuilt,<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

Hi both!

Hope you are not
still having trouble with the DPF?

Were you both
given copies of the Orlando owner's manual when you collected your cars from
the dealer? If you check page 175 of the manual it states

"... The
filter is cleaned by burning off the soot particles at high temperatures. This
process takes place automatically & may take 10 to 25 minutes....

If the diesel
particle filter requires cleaning or previous driving conditions did not enable
automatic cleaning, the diesel partial filter indicator illuminates or flashes.
Continue driving, maintaining a speed of 50km/h for about 15 minutes or until
the control indicator goes off....

Cleaning takes
place quicker at high engine speeds & loads."

This is another
case of Drive/Vauxhall/Chevrolets service team not reading their own manuals!!!

You do not need to
drive the car at high revs in a low gear to clean the DPF, I know this from experience!
You just need to drive the car at a speed of 30+ for up to half an hour. This
will clean the DPF out & the light will go off. The service team is just
telling you to rev it higher to burn the muck out of the filter quickly &
to get you out of the service centre!

You will find you
have this problem if you are only doing short runs of say 5-10 mile every day
over a few weeks.

Best advice I can
give you is to give your motor a run out once a fortnight. Pack the
kids/wife/other half/dog/Etc, in the car, get out the house & go for a
drive in the country for an hour or so!

Hope this helps
you both

Iva

 

[bill2503]

I was discussing this DPF issue with a Ford dealer mechanic who is a long standing friend. He tells me they are regularly bypassing the filters due to customer requests/complaints. He also tells me this improves fuel economy. I wouldn't want to do this personally I think as I'm not sure how it would affect the warranty. However, the wisdom of this idiotic piece of Government legislation is surely in question. As the filter becomes clogged your mpg reduces & you therefore use more fuel & create more pollution. When the filter reaches the stage where cleaning is required you have to perform this 20+ minute 'thrash' where consumption & pollution are both horrendous. So how is the fitting of DPFs 'green'? Ah, I think to myself, our worthy politicians have sussed that as diesel engines become more & more frugal, less diesel is sold and revenue reduces. So, they have to find a way of increasing fuel consumption again but at the same time trying to make out that it's for the benefit of the planet. It's not - it just hits motorists in the pocket once again.

 

[Chevvychase]

seems my Epica has its own regeneration cycle and gives off the smell akin to hot brake linings

 

[drongo]

hello. We bought our 2.0ltr Orlando Diesel new in March although it's a 2013 vehicle. We fell in love with it but asked plenty of questions about the dpf filters as I only work round the corner. We were assured by the sales person that as long as we gave the car a good journey once a fortnight we would have no problem. A few weeks on and the filter warning light came on even tho the Orlando has a weekly motorway run. I took it up the motorway and drove it in the way already mentioned and the light went out. We have now done 2,000 miles and last weekend the car had a 200 mile round trip mainly on the motorway so as you would imagine we were surprised when this Friday not only did the light come back on but the car lost power. We rang the garage where we bought the car and we're told 4 different things to do from people all in the same department. First lady said not to worry as they would look at it when it was serviced in 3 weeks time. Second chap told us to get the emergency services to take the car to the garage, after he spoke with man number 3 he then said to drive it home at high revs in low gear for around 5 miles to regenerate the filter. This we did but it was not until the car had been switched off for an hour or so did the light go out. We rang the garage yesterday morning when person number 4 told us that we had to drive the car in low gear and high revs weekly for about 10miles. .The car ran ok all day yesterday yet I've now just started the engine and the filter light is on again. We bought a new car as we don't the worry of an older vehicle so as you would expect we are not impressed that after just 3 months of ownership we are now stressed over our Orlando and can see our caravan holiday that we are due to go on in just over a week not happening. So, what next, another phone call to the garage!!! I am slowly losing confidence in this vehicle.
Edited by: drongo

 

[Chevvychase]

Slowly?.......lol

 

[drongo]

trying to keep calm about it all but I am getting a real bad feeling about this purchase even tho we like the car itself

 

[Aussie Ed]

I have a Captiva and it needs a good 20 minutes plus run on dual carriageway to clean and regen the DPF. 5 to 10 miles certainly isnt enough. As far as your holiday is concerned, try a bottle of DPF cleaner this might tide you over until it goes in for service.Which fuel do you use? I used city diesel from supermarket and found it aggravated DPF tendencies. Since last Nov I've increased the cetane rating slightly by adding a dose of Millers Ecomax diesel at each fill up and the DPF has only run for times (that I have been aware of) in that time, so a slightly cleaner burn seems to help (at least in my case it has).
By the way the cost of the additive is a lot less than than paying for 'super diesel'.
Also, when it goes in for service make sure that your dealer uses a low saps oil (C3 or better) and Dexos 2 rated. The wrong engine oil can add to particle build-up and deposits.

 

[orel]

Hi,I have got the Orlando too, and as far as I know, the regeneration doesn´t depend on your driving, but it is launched by the car. It means, you can drive 300 miles long journey and nothing happens and then you drive only 10 miles and the car suddenly wants to do the regeneration process. It´s a bit unpredictable. My Orlando keeps an interval of about 500-600 miles. You can see the process only by higher immediate consumption (almost doubbled). Otherwise you can´t know, the process has started.
Once I didn´t finish the regeneration, and the next attempt took place after about 40 miles again. Then I had longer journey and the regeneration was finished successfuly.
So my advice would be : Try to watch sometimes immediate consumtion and when it´s much higher, it means the regeneration is in the process. You don´t really have to drive in high revolutions, just an usual driving. After about 13 miles it should be finished.
But, when you stop earlier, you don´t finish it and the car will try to do it again after some time again.
When you do it three times, the yellow control will shine and you shouldn´t stop in any case. You should finish the process, otherwise the car will switch to emergency (slow) regime and the only help is in service.
I must admit, I´m also a bit worried about the DPF, but I hope I´ve got used to it.
Sorry for my English, I´m Czech.

Wish you good luck with you car.

 

[Aussie Ed]

Orel, Good to have your input, and very good English - well done.The type of driving will have a direct bearing on the build up of deposits ie short city/town driving to/fro school being the worst - (should have purchased a petrol vehicle) - is not really suited to diesel engines with DPF, but you are quite right that the operation of the auto regen seems to be erratic and unpredictable compared to the current journey. It is of course a gradual build up and then all of a sudden the sensor trips in to instruct the engine to 'over dose' with fuel and alter the valve timing so as to use fuel in the exhaust to ignite and burn off the particles. It is important to keep the temperature high to enable the burn off to be effective. On the Captiva the DPF is a long way along the exhaust and in winter the cooling of the external air temperature on the exhaust can be a disadvantage - hence driving in 4th or 5th gear keeping revs and the engine temperature up to assist the regeneration. I think those who have the most problem have possibly not noticed the attempted regenerations and not allowed them to complete, until eventually the vehicle goes into safety limp home mode.

 

[orel]

Hi Aussie Ed,You´re definitely right about the process. Fortunately,our Orlandos have one advantage as for the DPF, because it´s really near the engine. That´s why we don´t need to keep revs so high. However, the process takes quite long too. I don´t understand, why the maker couldn´t install some kind of information about how full the filter is and after how many miles it´s going to be burned out. That´s the main problem. In this case nobody can know, when it´s going to happen and it´s quite irritating when after a long journey you have only short ones and at that moment the filter wants to be cleaned.
Maybe, there could be one solution for us, but I´m not sure about it. If we bought OBDII transmitter and join it with a smartphone, there are some programs, which can show lots of operational information.
But I´m not sure, if there´s the one, we need - information about filtr.
If anybody knows, please let us know.
Wish a nice day and no problems with our cars.

 

[drongo]

hi Ore, you are right in what you say, this problem really is annoying. The garage where we purchased our Orlando blame the low mileage that we do on our issues. I am sure they are correct but we did point out that we do not do regular long trips before we purchased the car. As we cannot prove that we had these conversations then we are left to sort the problem out ourselves. Like you we hope for a solution.

 

[orel]

Hi Drongo,I think the only solution for you is to watch the immediate consumption and when it´s much higher, not to stop(you can stop, but not to switch off the engine).
When the consumption is down again, the cleaning of the DPF has finished. After that, you might be calm for at least 300-400 miles. I know, it´s a bit like we were slaves of the car, but what can we do.
Now I also see, that if I drove regularly about 30 miles journeys, there wouldn´t be problem at all. But when it´s shorter, it´s almost impossible to finish the cleaning. The process starts when the engine is warmed up, which can be 5 miles, and then takes about 13 miles to finish. I would be happy if I could start the process on my own by switching some button when the filter was filled up to some percentage.
But in the way they produce and sell it, it doesn´t seem to me finished (as for the DPF). On the other hand, all cars have it in this way.
Well, try to get used to it and maybe after some time it won´t be as a big problem.
Enjoy your holiday and don´t worry, for your Orlando it will be much better than driving around the corner.
At least it will have the time and opportunity to clean the DPF

Bye
Orel

 

[drongo]

Thank you, not sure if this is correct but I have noticed that a few days before the filter warning light comes on the car makes a noise as if the fan was on trying to cool the engine down once I stop. I have since learnt that this is all to do with the filter trying to go thru the cleaning process. So, next time I heard this I will take the car for a long run to complete the cycle, not always easy tho if it happens when I have just finished a long night shift and need to get some sleep. I do think we could become slaves to our cars

 

[orel]

Yeah, you´re correct. That was the cleaning process and it happened to me once too. But I noticed the fan after switching off the engine. So by this, I stopped the process and then the car tried to do it again after about 40 miles again.So when you hear the fan and also the higher consumption, try not to stop and do finish the process. If it´s not possible, just be prepared, it will repeat quite soon. And there should be only 3 attempts, then the yellow light comes on. It´s the last warning and you mustn´t stop the engine, otherwise only servis can help you.